If you want to get a debate going amongst survival types, all you have to do is say, “The best survival gun is _____.” It really doesn’t matter what type of gun you fill in the blank there, you could say a Kentucky Long Rifle or a Blunderbuss. Regardless of what it is, you’ll get a whole bunch of people responding, telling you why your choice is wrong and their favorite gun is the survival gun of choice.
Part of the problem is that there really is no one perfect gun for survival; I don’t care what you pick. Survival needs are so varied, that there really isn’t one gun that will do everything you need. If you’re serious about survival, you need a small arsenal of personal firearms, picking out the best possible gun for each specific purpose.
By the way, that small arsenal I mentioned is a small arsenal for each shooter in your survival team. Unless each member of your team only has one job to do, they’re probably going to need multiple types of guns.
Of course, if you bug out, you’re not going to be able to take the whole arsenal with you. In that case, you’re going to have to limit it to one long gun (rifle or shotgun) and one sidearm per person. It’s not just the weight of the guns you have to consider, but the weight of the ammunition as well.
One way to handle this is to arm your bug out survival team with a variety of different long guns. This will allow you to have that same sort of variety that your personal arsenal gives you, while limiting the weight that each person has to carry. If you standardize a bit on the guns you all buy, then you should all be accustomed to shooting the same guns, meaning that you can switch guns back and forth between you, without a whole lot of problem.
That still leaves us with the problem of what guns to buy. Basically, that means guns for:
- Personal defense (pistols)
- Home or survival retreat defense
- Team defense on a bug out
- Hunting big game
- Hunting small game
- Hunting birds
Let’s take a look at some of the best out there. You might not agree with me about some of these choices and you have a right to your opinion. But these are some of the best I see out there. I’ve purposely avoided all fully-automatic firearms, because I don’t feel they are practical for a survival situation. You would go through too much ammunition, too quickly.
Pistols
I’m personally a fan of semi-automatics, rather than revolvers. Yes, I know that revolvers are simpler and less likely to break. But if I’m depending on a pistol for my life, I want to have the most firepower possible. I just don’t like the idea of being limited to six rounds. While there are speed loaders out there, I have only met one former police officer who can actually load a revolver as fast with a speed loader, as the average shooter can slap a fresh magazine into a semi-automatic.
There’s also a lot of discussion out there about caliber. Personally, I’m a .45 fan, probably because that’s what I learned to shoot in the Army. But my survival gun is a 9mm. This is the single most popular caliber in the world, meaning that it is the one which will be most likely to be available for barter. So, while I carry a .45 every day, I also have a 9mm for my survival sidearm.
Glock Model 19
Glocks are probably one of the most popular pistols on the market; largely due to the ease of customization. All Glocks are basically the same, regardless of the caliber of frame size. That makes it extremely easy for aftermarket parts companies to produce parts for them. Their wide use in the law-enforcement community gives them enough of a market to make it profitable to do so.
The model 19 is their compact 9mm version, a slightly smaller version of the model 17. While carrying two rounds less in the magazine, the double-stack design still allows for 15 rounds, a very respectable load. Yet at the same time, the model 19 is smaller, lighter and easier to conceal than the model 17.
Smith & Wesson M&P Shield
The Smith & Wesson M&P is one of the top-selling pistols in the USA today. This is largely due to its compact size and light weight. This single-stack pistol is great as a concealable gun, making it ideal for everyday carry. In a survival situation, it might be an ideal backup gun, hidden away in case the primary is lost or taken from you.
Even though this is a subcompact semi-automatic pistol, it has s solid trigger. The standard magazine gives you a 7 round capacity, as opposed to most concealable guns, which only hold 6. That one extra round is a big advantage and has contributed considerably to the M&P’s popularity.
SigSauer P320
The SigSauer P320 has just recently been adopted by the US Military as the new sidearm, replacing the Beretta M9, which was the sidearm from 1985 to present times. Like the Glock, the Sig is a highly modular design, which we can expect to see a lot of aftermarket parts coming out for.
Having owned a SigSauer, I can testify to their reliability and ease of use. One of the things that has made this particular model so popular, and which won it the military contract, is that three different grip modules can be used with it, allowing it to accommodate different sizes of hands.
Colt 1911
I can’t let this list go without at least one pistol which isn’t a 9mm. There’s a good reason why the venerable Colt 1911 was the military sidearm for an amazing 74 years; that’s because it is so effective. Invented by James Browning, this pistol was created with the idea of combating Moro tribesmen, who would come out of the jungle high on drugs. The larger diameter and rather blunt .45 ACP round was excellent at transferring its energy into these tribesmen, increasing the chance of knocking them down, even if they didn’t feel the hit.
There are so many 1911s in circulation, that you can find a wide variety of aftermarket parts for them, just like Glocks. In fact, it almost seems like it’s hard to find a 1911 which hasn’t been modified, even if that only means changing the grips.
Related: 6 Reliable ‘Pocket’ Revolvers For Off-grid Defense
Rifles
The main gun for most people will of necessity be a rifle of some sort. The question then is, what sort of rifle. That can be a bit difficult to decide, as the same rifle might have to be used for multiple purposes. A rifle which works for hunting really isn’t all that good for home defense. One that is good for hunting big game, will splatter small game all over the landscape. So how to pick?
As with the pistols, I’d stick with the most popular rifle calibers out there; that’s 5.56mm/.223 caliber and 7.62mm/.308 caliber. While there are a lot of other good hunting calibers out there, like the .30-30 and .30-06, those calibers don’t work for tactical rifles. So, not only will they probably be harder to find in a post-disaster world, but you’ll have to stock more calibers of ammunition.
Once again, I would go with more than one rifle; perhaps a tactical rifle and a hunting rifle. That would give me more flexibility. If an AR-15, chambered in 5.56mm/.223 caliber is the tactical rifle, then a .22LR kit will allow it to be used for hunting small game as well.
On the other hand, an AR-15, chambered in 5.56mm/.223 caliber really isn’t a good hunting round for big game. You’re much better off with a 7.62mm/.308 caliber, or the other hunting calibers I mentioned above. A lot will depend on your team picks to standardize on and how you go about stockpiling your ammo.
Some people claim that a .22LR is an ideal survival rifle and there are even a couple of collapsible .22LR survival guns on the market. But you’re limited in what you can do with any .22LR. While good for shooting small game, that’s really all they are good for. Granted, if that’s all you have for self-defense, you use it; but why would you want to set yourself up that way?
AR-15
The AR-15 is inarguably the most popular sporting rifle in the country today. There are a number of things which contribute to this, but probably the flexibility and customizability of the design are the main reasons. You can literally do just about anything with this platform, setting it up for just about any purpose. I’m not even going to try and pick a specific AR-15 model as the best, as there are so many of them out there. Mine is custom made, as are many others.
Because of its capability, the AR-15 has also become the number one rifle for most preppers. If you need a rifle for defensive purposes, this will do much better than the hunting rifles mentioned further down. But the standard 5.56mm/.223 caliber cartridge really isn’t heavy enough for big game hunting.
Nevertheless, I’d recommend that everyone have an AR-15 in their personal arsenal, along with plenty of extra magazines. I’d also recommend buying one that is chambered in the standard 5.56mm, rather than something larger. As a defensive round, the 5.56mm is excellent. You can also use this gun for varmints and hunting small game, especially if you get the .22LR conversion kit I mentioned earlier.
AR-10
The AR-10 was actually the predecessor to the AR-15, chambered in the larger 7.62mm. While it was off the market for a lot of years, it has become more popular in recent times. Basically, it offers you everything the AR-15 does, in a larger caliber. This gives you the advantage of being able to use it for hunting large game.
AK-47
There are those who prefer the Soviet Union’s AK-47 over the AR-15. I’m personally a bit prejudiced against them; but that’s due to my time in the Army. The AK-47 is an excellent rifle, as proven out by how popular it is, around the world.
One of the greatest advantages the AK-47 has over any other rifle on the market is that it is virtually indestructible. You can take an AK-47 underwater or in a mud puddle and fire it, without damaging the gun in any way. There are few other guns around that you can do that to. Designed for simplicity and ruggedness, the AK-47 could actually be the ideal survival rifle, as it would probably last forever.
Chambered for the 7.62mm round, the AK can be used for hunting big game, unlike the standard AR-15. This is an advantage too. Having a rifle that works for both defensive purposes and hunting, all in one package, is ideal for survival.
Related: The AK-47 vs AR-15: Which Rifle is Better When SHTF?
Remington 700
The Remington 700 series of rifles has been a favorite of hunters for many years. It’s also made itself quite a reputation as a sniper rifle in the US Army. While we now have other sniper rifles which are much higher caliber and have much longer ranges, there’s no doubting the quality and reliability of the 700.
My personal Remington 700 is chambered in .308 caliber/7.62mm, in the belief that this will be easier caliber ammunition to find. I’ve customized mine, putting a MagPul tactical stock on it and a bi-pod. I’ve also put the magazine well in it, so that I can change magazines quickly and easily. You have to buy one that’s made for this, or you can’t do that modification. While my 700 is intended to be a hunting rifle, the mods I’ve made make it possible to use it as a sniper rifle, if I should so need.
Mauser M18
Mauser has quite a reputation for rifles, especially bolt-action ones. It comes from the factory chambered in 3.08, with a detachable magazine and an adjustable trigger. This is nice, as it allows you to lighten up the trigger pull for more accurate shooting. The three-stage safety allows you to carry the rifle with a round in the chamber, without having to worry about it being forced to go off.
This rifle is filled with convenient features, like a storage chamber in the stock; a great place to keep your cleaning supplies. If you think about that, it’s a great idea for a survival gun. It’s also got a fairly short barrel, making it ideal as a brush gun.
Browning X-Bolt Hunter
This browning comes with a detachable rotary magazine, which I consider a necessity for a survival rifle. But what makes it really special is the way it handles recoil. The “recoil index technology” used in its design pushes the stock down and away from the shooter’s face. Like the Mauser, the trigger is adjustable, with a low end of just 3 pounds.
While I expect Brownings to have excellent design, they didn’t miss a thing on this one. The barrel is free-floating, which increases accuracy, especially when making multiple shots over long distances. On top of that, the ergonomics are outstanding, making it a very easy rifle to work with.
Shotguns
When we talk shotguns in the prepping and survival community, we’re talking 12 gauge; so let’s get that out of the way to start with. I’m not even going to think about 20 gauge or .410.
In many ways, the shotgun is the ideal survival firearm, mostly due to its flexibility. The shotgun has two primary purposes in survival, just like the rifle, hunting and defense. But the thing is, you can hunt for just about anything with a shotgun, out to about 100 yards, just by changing the type of ammunition you are using. Small game can be hunted with the same rounds as birds, slugs can be used for big game and a combination of buckshot and slugs can be used in defensive situations.
Shotguns can be broken down into two basic groups: tactical shotguns and hunting shotguns. There are two basic differences between these two. The first is barrel length, the average tactical shotgun barrel is only 18.5 inches, while the average hunting barrel is 26 to 25 inches. The other is the number of rounds they hold in the magazine. Hunting shotguns are generally limited to three rounds, while tactical shotguns can hold three, five or seven. Some even have replaceable magazines.
While tactical shotguns really aren’t designed for hunting, especially bird hunting, I think they could still be useful for hunting in a survival situation. The key is the choke. Most tactical shotguns are “full bore” meaning that the muzzle doesn’t close in any, providing a “choke.” But that’s not to say they can’t be.
Not only that, but the chokes on some shotguns can be changed. So, if you have a tactical shotgun with interchangeable chokes, you could leave it full bore for tactical uses, then change it to “full choke” to get a tighter pattern for hunting. It wouldn’t be quite as good as a hunting shotgun, but it would be acceptable. Just don’t try running a slug down that barrel with full choke.
Kel-Tek KSG
I was very impressed the first time I saw Kel-Tek’s SKG. This is a dual-magazine, bullpup shotgun, designed specifically for building clearing and other CQB applications. Each magazine holds 7 rounds, giving you a total capacity of 15. One magazine could be filled with slugs and the other buckshot, allowing you to switch easily between the two. The only thing wrong with it is that the magazines aren’t removable, so it takes a bit of time to reload it.
In my opinion, this is the best possible firearm for home defense, providing a lot of firepower in a compact, easy to use design. If I had to defend my home from a gang of attackers, this is what I would want to use. However, I’d want my AR-15 standing by, in case I needed more than the 15 rounds it holds.
Another great use for the KSG is the slack man when on patrol. This is the backup person for the point man. Their job is to protect the point man, in case he comes under fire. As such, they need a lot of firepower that they can throw out there, quickly.
UTAS UTS-15
The UTAS UTS-15 is very similar to the Kel-Tek SHG, just from a different manufacturer. Some claim that it is better, as well as being a bit cheaper. I won’t judge between the two; but would rather suggest that you look at both, if you’re thinking about buying one of them.
Mossberg 590
If there is any company which is known for tactical shotguns, it’s Mossberg. Probably just about every police department in the nation has their products in their armory. Mossberg shotguns are reliable and designed specifically to be tactical guns; they’re not just a cut-down version of a hunting shotgun.
While Mossberg has a number of excellent models, the 590 has the advantage of having a replaceable box magazine. You can get 10 or 20 round magazines for it. From what I understand, the 20 round makes it a little harder to pump the gun and load a new round. But that advantage is something well worth having in a tactical situation.
Mossberg shotguns are also designed either with sights or for the addition of optics. Typically the 590 comes with ring and post sights, which are easy to work with. Personally, I’d probably change this over to a red dot sight, just because the red dot is so much faster to use.
Remington 870
For hunting, the Remington 870 is probably the top choice. Since coming out in 1950, this shotgun has become one of the most popular on the market. Its reasonable price adds to this popularity, while the quality makes it one that you can count on.
Winchester 1300
The other top shotgun for hunting would be the Winchester 1300. This is commonly known as the “speed pump” due to the fast cycling you can accomplish with it.
While there are many other good hunting shotguns out there, these two models are popular and inexpensive. Should there be a need to find parts for repairs, chances are that it will be easier to find parts for these, than if you were to pick out some high-grade shotgun that wasn’t so popular. In a post-disaster world, that’s something you just can’t afford.
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One gun I didn’t see on your list, the good old .22 ???
He mentioned the .22 in the beginning, but argued that it is a limited caliber so why have that one if you can get something with more versatility.
I personally do have a .22 in my arsenal and think everyone should. The ammo is inexpensive and plentiful. The decibel range is relatively quiet and if we are truly talking a SHTF scenario I would rather make as little noise as possible (also why I have an bow too). Also can save your hearing in the long run unless you happen to have some peltors but then why would we waste the batteries?
Lots of things to consider and so many variables. No one right answer and the list above has some excellent guns listed to consider.
The .22 is going to be your main hunting gun. Never discount the venerable .22 whether a bolt or a semi-auto.
it will bring home game up to small deer size with proper shot placement, it is quiet, accurate, and you can easily carry hundreds of rounds of ammunition without weighing you down.
Not only that, but you can carry various types of ammo. Everything from shot shells, and very quiet subsonic rounds, to high powered light weight hollow points.
If I get jumped by a roving band of zombies while shooting for some food… I would much rather have 1000 rounds of .22 on me than two or three 30 rnd .223 mags, and an AR-15.
A dead Zombie is a dead zombie, and no one cares what caliber got the job at hand done.
Simple fact that the lowly .22 gets the job done, and you can easily carry 1000 rounds of ammo in your pockets with out any major effort.
My first thought too.
He mentioned .22 several times including the .22 ‘drop-in’ for the AR-15.
The .22 ‘drop-in’ WILL NOT cycle for semi-automatic fire (not enough gas pressure), so the Charging Handle must be cycled to eject the spent round and insert a live round.
that’s not correct
Meathead,
I don’t know where you gathered or heard that from…. But perhaps you need to tell the USAF and perhaps other Militaries that use such an Adapter and done so for many years that such Adaptors do not work in ARs and M-16s.
You can also please explain to me since I have used them numerous times in firing for one type of Qualifications including Qualifying in BMTS among others.
Never had the had the problem/s you describe, although rare, MISSFIRES DID HAPPEN.
The conversion kits have PROVEN to be RELIABLE over at LEAST 50 years of use.
There are also .22 LR adapters for the Ruger Mini-14 in .223 Rem / 5.56×45 NATO
By Drop-in, do you mean “conversion”? If not, some upper adapters will require a larger load in systems designed for hot load .223 rounds.
A complete conversion will provide a barrel system that is gas adjusted specifically for that cartridge.
Additionally, the .22 caliber round is a great round, but not nearly as effective as the .223. They are closely related as far as projectile diameter, but that’s about it. As far as having fun plinking or hunting small game, it is more than adequate. For SHTF situations, you’ll wish you had the extra stopping power at greater distances.
Obviously, the cost point and availability for the .22 is unbeatable. It’s a great teaching round for young shooters. Learning to shoot without the fear of the recoil is optimal. After creating good habits, increasing in range and BC is the progression. But again, .22 is NOT for SHTF times.
.22 LR weighs around 7.5 pounds per thousand , so that would be a lot of weight and bulk to carry around in your pockets. A small backpack would be a better alternative for that amount of ammo.
I have used the lowly .22 on everything from rats to White Tail deer. Only close range and head shots on deer because I did not want to loose a lot of meat to the crows and rodents.
Lol I am sure the dnr would love to see that one.
Gunna go deep here, the 10-22 is Not rpt Not a good survival gun unless you never run the risk of ammo running out. The Ruger is a great little rifle, I wont argue that. But by its very design it has a operating window quite small.
The 10-22 is designed to use standard high velocity round nose ammo. Yes I know some 10-22s will be reliable, and eat CCI Stingers or Remington yellow jackets or vipers all day long. Most wont, simple design fact. Plus if you figure in the CB’s, Shorts and 22 longs you might be forced to use, well lets be honest. It’s gunna be a jam o matic. Yes I have several 10-22s and love them. But my Marlin 981T will shoot ANYTHING.
Survival means SURVIVE! Personal pet favorites dont belong in that situation. Thanx
I’m gonna say my Ruger blackhawk in 45 colt is a good long term survival gun. These rounds are originally black powder ammo, so long after all of the factory smokeless ammo is gone you can make your own black powder, cast your own bullets, and even reuse primers by making your own primer mixture. Serviceable primer mixture has been made from matches. black powder is basically charcoal, sulfur, and salt peter (potassium nitrate)… very easy chemicals to manufacture.
The biggest issue is brass shells wearing out after 100 years, and losing the tiny parts inside of the primer cup.
a 45 colt pistol will easily take deer and larger at 50+ yards, with 6 rapid fire rounds for self defense when everyone else has long been using bows and slingshots.
Any black powder gun will allow the same black powder advantages, but most are single shot HEAVY rifles.
Any gun originally made for black powder is great such as 45-70, etc…
Your favorite Glock, 10-22, etc is a paper weight after all the smokeless ammo has all been found and fired.
The ar 22 conversions suck on modern AR barrels, the twist rate is no longer 1/12 or 1/9 but mostly 1/7 so you don’t have the ability to stabilize the bullet well
Claude, Thanks for sharing. I read a lot of these types of posts as a (so far) non-any-type of gun owner (other than pellet). Your post is the best by far (it makes so much sense to me), and partially by including “team thought” that I have not read in any other post. I haven’t bought yet (X about 4 years now of studying the subject) because I made rules for myself, particularly with self-defense weapons. but also because I am still working and have time constraints in my aging family. My rule is never accidentally hit an innocent; and I told myself that if I would not practice, I should not bother to own (for the reason of not measuring up to my #1 rule). I bought a SIRT to learn from; but I haven’t practiced it due to time constraints. My dilemma is eye astigmatism (I can’t focus my eyes); and then my other biggest concern is, “What would make me want to pick one of my kids (40s, whose bad habits have been worse than mine) to inherit my stuff? I do have the opinion that some people should never own (but learn how to run). the fact that I read your article means that I have not given up on the quest to deal with this matter well, maybe later this year or the next.
radarphos, From what you said it appears you need to just do it or don’t do it there is no in between. You may not have time to wait till next year or even this summer. A prepper means one thing being prepared for an event that will most likely happen in your lifetime. My self I am retired on SS and not much funds to spend on prepping but I am prepared as much as I can be. I own several guns i bought or traded for and I have learned a lot from others, as to family getting those guns well I raised them as best I could and what they do with them is on them and not me. See you can only be responsible for you and your young and not someone that is an adult.
Events are happening that I believe will lead to a SHTF (shit hits the fan)and those events are not easy to see. It I think will be an economic caused event first. Then that will cause the SFTY (Shit flies toward you)lol witch is the reason you prep.
Dreaded. Thanks for your comments. I think you are right…and in a general way I have always thought this way; but my limitations have held me back.
I have been watching, listening, and transcribing a free (at the cost of s/h) DVD offered by Jason Hanson. It is his recommended offer referring to Goat’s Bags, and the prep-planning done by experts related to BOBs, GHB’s, and other bags. I was astounded that a (possibly) now retired expert carried a .357 revolver with the first two rounds of rat shot, and the other four full .357. What he described was the possibility of being surprised (and unready), except for expert quick draw+accurate fire…but because of that unready suprise that could happen to anyone, the rat shots would be a non-lethal NOTIFICATION that would likely result in a retreat (or pause), that would be followed by much more serious activity that from an expert would be very serious. What it did for me, is give me a “GO”, similar to your recommendation. It became a way to get started and set aside my hesitations. In Jason Hanson’s intro to a special friend, he suggested that watchers would see “a thing or two” that they never have seen elsewhere. Actually though, it is dozens of things that, in my case, I have never seen nor heard of anywhere; and it has changed my whole view of how to carry Preparedness Bags (on my person), and more. It is well worth the $6.00 s/h. So I thank you for your comment, and it fits with newer (brand new to me) info that I have recently acquired…and I just appreciate it all, after 4 years+ of struggling to understand what I might, and overcoming my stuckness.
Radarphos: I recommend getting a 20 gauge pump or semi auto shot gun for your self defense. You don’t need great vision to use it. Just point in the right direction and pull the trigger. It’s light and has little recoil and it can also be used for hunting small to medium sized game. Also a very common type of ammo so it should be accessible when SHTF. If you don’t trust your kids designate a friend to take possession when you pass on.
Please, Hacksaw, the urban myth that one does not have to aim a shotgun is just that, an urban myth. By the time the shot column reaches maximum dispersal to do what you suggest it does the velocity of the pellets has dropped to the point all they are good for is breaking clay pigeons.
At household distances, even with a cylinder bore the shot column of any bore shotgun is only about ten percent bigger than the bore of the muzzle. If your shot is only one inch in diameter, it is quite easy to miss if you just point in the general direction of the target. At household distances the shotgun must be aimed just as any other gun must be aimed at those close ranges.
You can prove that to yourself if you care to at any range that will allow you to fire a shotgun or the next time you are out plinking, put a sheet of cardboard out that is about the size of a human horse and just point your shotgun in its general direction, don’t bother looking at the signs. See how many hits you get. No, no, no aiming, just throw the gun to your shoulder and are as soon a the butt is against your shoulder.
12 ga field loads are cheaper and better with about the same recoil. I cast buckshot and wad slugs for hunting, they work well and are much cheaper to shoot in volume.
Eskimos/ Inuits hill polar bears with the .22 LR. I would not recommend trying it, But they do so successfully.
I will say this, There are those of smaller stature that simply cannot safely handle the Recoil of 12 Gauge Magnum loads.
This includes Men. I have seen this happen Time after Time while Qualifying or FAM Fire.
Most anyone from youths to women and Men of Slight Stature.
Hand them a .20 Gauge and watch their Qual Scores go up!
I can guarantee you a Bad Guy is not going to care or know the difference when hit Center Mass 12 Gauge OR 20 Gauge Loads of Buckshot or slugs.
ACCURACY AND SHOT PLACEMENT ARE WHAT COUNTS!!!
By All means IF a person cannot handle or shoot a 12 Gauge Accurately then they should by all Means consider a 20 Gauge That they can shoot accurately and Consistently!
No matter what Caliber Handgun or Rifle or Gauge a person carries, IF they cannot hit the Broadside of a Barn with it…..the weapon is only good for intimidation.
HITS are the only thing that Counts……Misses do not mean anything and could easily get one killed or going Hungry!
While .20 ga. shotguns are underrated, in the scenario above, ammo is NOT going to be as likely to be available as .12 ga. I have a .22 rifle and pistol; but if I have to “bug out”, it’s the Saiga .223 rifle I will take with. I pack fmj, “penetrators” and hollow points. Sidearm is my .45 ACP along with my .22 revolver, packed in my ammo bag with 200 rounds of hp…
The .22 is certainly under rated by many people. It is an accurate small game getter. It is quiet anyway, so that makes it easy to build a can for from junk materials (old flashlight, washers, spacers, etc) to make it even quieter. There is something to be said for being able to load your pockets with 200-300 rounds and still carry all of your other gear easily.
I also prefer the .45 – in a 1911 platform because that is what I shoot well, but a .357 revolver will take down small dear, and it can also shoot 38 spcl.
I would hate to have to bug out and have to make this choice… all of my guns have something that they excel at, whether it be hunting, self defense, or “other.”
By other I mean like my Mosin or SKS with plenty of cheap surplus ammo that I can arm other members of the household, and trusted neighbors for common defense.
Why a relic like the 1911 ?
The sks is nice but the ak is light years ahead.
Ar15s can be had for 400 now.
Because it is accurate, reliable, well balanced, and it has one of the best triggers ever put into a hand gun. Therefore, I shoot it well.
I have had many plastic, striker fired guns, and in my opinion the trigger on all of them are crap next to a 1911. Plus a plastic body with a metal slide causes the gun to be top heavy and unbalanced resulting in excessive muzzle flip especially when you go from 9 mm to something snappier like .40 cal.
I also like the .45 ACP as with the heavier, balanced 1911 it gives more of a push than a snap.
ive had both sks and AK the sks was more accurate but the 6.5 Grendel has double the accurate range with hunting 123 gr bullets for short range the 100 gr Russian 6.5 Grendel is very hard to beat unless you reload.
One can get a .22 LR Conversion kit for 1911 Government Sized Semi-Autos.
Normally used for Training and Fam Fire… But there is no reason it could not be used to hunt small game with!
The 1911 is now over 100 Years Old and still in production! It Was used by the US Military from at least since WWI Through Vietnam and more. There are some Operators out there that still carry it or Variants of it.
No doubt in the US it is still quite popular and being made and sold by more Firearm Manufacturers in the US and other Countries, and in various sizes from the Officers Model to the Commander, to the full size and “The Long Slide” by some.
The 1911 .45 ACP has been proven to WORK all around the World for over 100 Years!
IT is STILL a Best Seller after all these years.
Just because it is Old does not mean it is obsolete or does not work.
IT DEFINITELY WORKS IN THIS MODERN DAY AND AGE!!
I am quite sure you would not want to be shot with one.
Guess How Old the SKS or the AK-47 are. I don’t see anyone complaining about them
BY THE WAY The old Soviet 7.62×39 caliber/Round used in the SKS or AK-47…IS Roughly the Ballistic Equivalent to US 30.30 Winchester.
Most AKs are not as accurate as the AR-15s.
Granted the AK-47 platform is one Tough design and extremely durable…As for the Caliber shooting Hundreds of Yards Accurately….and still be effective?
How many Hundreds of Yards can one shoot a 30.30 Winchester Accurately and still be Effective?
Granted the Spire point 7.62×39 vs the Flat Tip 30.30 will shoot flatter and a bit longer…but still is limited in it’s range as is the 30.30 Winchester!
Yosemite – I actually prefer the 30-30 over the AK or SKS for hunting. Few deer , black bear, etc in my state are taken at over 150 to 200 yards. The SKS is plenty accurate enough to relegate to a hunting rifle, but te Soviet guns are quite heavy compared to a good lever action, and the little break action single shots are even lighter and often come with a second barrel (20 GA shotgun).
Hunting can involve toting that gun around the woods for hours. If a good deer does not come along, then a quick change 20 gauge may save the day and bring home a brace of rabbit or tree rat.
30-30 bolts and lever guns have probably put more deer on the table than any other cartridge/gun combination. They are quick on target, have a fast follow up shot, and you aren’t getting 3 – 4 shots at a deer anyway. A heavy semi-auto is just extra weight to carry around all day.
A good AR in 300 BO is definitely filling that nitch for many, but I admit that I still like the the classic 30-30 lever and a good revolver when in the woods.
Folks who have a lot of plains land to hunt probably want a good rifle that will reach out to 500 yards.
The 1911 will be here forever. It will shoot anything from .17 to .44 magnum + with just a barrel, spring, and magazine change. It has one of the most ergonomic grips, and the best triggers in the world… so Glock fan-boys can just take their cr#ppy trigger plastic gun and go kick rocks. We really don’t care how you do it up north. lol
Just kidding fan-boys, to each their own. 🙂
dp,
My remarks were meant for Raven Tactical who asked “why would anyone want a relic like that?”
Certainly there are many numerous 1911 still in modern production and certainly do not classify as a relic as they are NIB!
The original Mosin Nagant entered Russia Militarty in 1891 and was upgraded/modified in 1930 to include Sniper versions.
There are many old Bolt action Rifles out there including Mausers and the the old M1903 and variants Springfield 30.06 Carbine Williams that invented the .30 Caliber M1 Carbine made an adapter for the 1903 Springfield and the M-94 Winchester that turned them in a select fire sub gun of sorts IF memory serves me correctly.
The SKS was invented in 1943….It is a Rifle and to call it light years ahead of the 1911 is nonsense.
Again remarks directed to Raven Tactical…
dp, A Most DEFINITE YES about the M-94 30.30 taking more big game in North America than any other single caliber. Since it’s beginnings and over the years other calibers have come along and tried to unseat the 30.30 Winchester and while there are those that seem to think or believe that has happened, It is only in their biased opinions.
Also the M-94 has the distinction of serving as a “Combat Rifle” in the Us Military at one point in it’s long History.
Winchester M-94 30.30 Winchester is well over 100 years old Mark and still killing game as effectively as it when it was first manufactured!
Some people are turned on and love all of the latest greatest gadgets and gizmos and stocks, sites, lasers , GPS, computers, lights, whatever plenty things to invite “MISTER MURPHY” to visit and t fail or batteries to die when most needed.
I live in mostly heavy/dense ground cover and also a good bit of swampland. I have hunted white-tails with 12 and 20 Gauge shotguns and 30.30 all successfully.
Most shots are usually made around 10-25 yards or there abouts.
To legally hunt with a semiauto rifle it must a 5 round and no more magazine.
But in a SHTF TEOTWAWKI I seriously doubt that would matter.
Get a good supply of Jacketed Hollow Points for all of your Semi Auto and other rifles to hunt with. I bought a few boxes and for my handguns as self defense bullets
Also something if you/anyone can get are air rifles with muzzle Velocity of 1200FPS MINIMUM. Pellets are relatively cheap and one usually find them cheap enough to pick up a couple Thousand pellets for under $20.00 USD. even assortment packs of various types of pellets that some are meant for penetration, others meant for expansion. They are relatively quiet compared to Rifles….their are .22 CB rounds that used in Gallery Guns that are good for small game at close range.
A .177 or .22 caliber pellet to the face or forehead and elsewhere can/will blind them and will slow down a Bad Guy and perhaps no doubt Highly piss them them off….but definitely slow them down…..
Just something to think about.
For others with enough money there are serious calibers up to 50 caliber projectiles. air rifles out on the open market and no FFL is required.
DO NOT FORGET Crossbows and plenty of extra bolts and a few extra strings….even Long Bows or Compound Bows but make sure they are Sturdy as well as plenty of arrows.
Simple is often best with less to go wrong.
No one eat Gold, Silver, or anything else. Plenty of extra food will no doubt be worth lots of ammo….. Not to mention whatever you can collect from those that do not need it anymore
Take care and all the Best with you and yours!
7 round capacity for a full size pistol is terrible
Mosins and sks rifles used to be under 200 dollars making it worthwhile but now they enter AR prices. So why bother.
Maybe the problem is not the capacity of the original 1911. Maybe if you concentrated as much effort into hitting your target, then you would not be so concerned about how many boolits you have available to pray an spray down range.
The 7 round capacity is simply what you get with a single stack magazine. The 2011 addresses this non-issue by upgrading the 1911 to a double stack magazine for a (I believe) 15+1 capacity in a .45 caliber.
The 2011 is also available in 9 mm and other ammo sizes for even more capacity. Many modern firearms are being produced in single stack versions, including Glock models, due to the better concealability. These guns also have a limited capacity.
Raven, you are not even beating a dead horse anymore…
You are beating the ground where a sick horse recovered, and got up and walked away over 5 years ago.
Even in the original 1911 single stack you had tthe ability to simply CCW your world class firearm (1911) with the original 9 round capacity (8+1) and carry high capacity magazines if you needed more than 9 shots including drum magazines.
1911 capacity has never been a real issue, but rather a knee jerk talking point of Glock fan-boy types.
IN My Opinion The Ruger 19/22 (Especially the Take Down) is the best out there for anyone looking or wanting a .22 LR.
There are unlimited modifications out there for the Ruger 10/22. Various types of so called “High-Capacity” magazines and most will snap together (I suggest using a strip of Duct-Tape to secure them) makes for a fast and speedy reloads.
There are even drums magazines out there that are readily available for the 10/22.
The 10/22 Take Down comes with a bag that is quite capable of holding several magazines and or spare boxes of ammo and the size makes storing it a breeze.
Something to consider!
That SHOULD READ RUGER 10/22.
DANG TYPOS and not being able to edit!
The Round the Mosin Nagant, uses is The Soviet/Russian Equivalent of the 30.06. Just Saying and it is Bolt Action.
I don’t know how much Long Range shooting you have done with it…..500….600…..700……800 yards or more….??? Using cheap ammo might not be the best for reliable accuracy at such ranges…..
The length of the Rifle MIGHT also be an issue and something to consider
Most IMPORTANT thing you need to decide is : “WHAT do you want/expect the Rifle/s you carry to do?
I have a mosin. it is one of my 1st guns… plenty of accurizing info on the web, and you can still find 7.62 R ammo in 220, 440, 880 round surplus Russian ammo for $0.75 to $0.50 per round in spam cans. It is steel case throw away burdane p rimed ammo, but it is cheap and it will take down anything out to 200 yards….
With some TLC it is good out to 500 yards.
dp.
I have no issues with the Mosin-Nagant as long as it works for you and fills all your needs and does whatever you ask of it.
As I said elsewhere the caliber is roughly equivalent of the the US/Western World 30.06.
When they made the upgrades in 193o, they turned some into EXCELLENT Sniper Rifles. A Russian woman was the best snipers of WWII for the Soviets.
Have you ever heard of a “DRAGONOV” ??? It was the best or one of the best semi-auto Sniper Rifles ever developed and it used the same rounds the Mosin-Nagant uses.
If you care to and can afford it and have yourself a long range shooter at least 800 yards or beyond.
If nothing else you definitely own a working piece of History. I seriously doubt it is possible, but you never know, you might be able to find about at least some of it’s History. I remember them selling for around $50.00 USD or so so….I should have bought a couple of them and used them as “Wall Hangers”. Also there were M-1 Garands were being sold for around $225.00 and Select grades going for $25.00 more.
Ahhhh the Good Ole Days. There were other weapons at most reasonable and inexpensive prices. including ChiCom SKS that never been used, just stored in the Armory some with minor dings or scratches complete with Spike bayonet, Original Sling, and oiler (all matching numbers) for around $100.00 USD and lesser low grade quality for between $50.00-$75.00. Italian BM-59 (there version of the M-1A/M-14 around $350.00 USD among other numerous firearms I cannot recall and Kick myself in the Ass for not buying some of them…. Especially since M-1 Garands are going for over $1K and M-1As for tad bit more…
ALL THE BEST be with you and Yours!
LOL Yosemite, When I post about the Mosin or the 1911 or any of your other posts I am just agreeing with you… hahaha 🙂
I don’t need you to educate me about the Mosin, or the 5.7, or very any other guns. I have been a gun collector for years. I bought my Mosin 20+ years ago, and I researched it, and I shot it a few times, and then I accurized it and I cleaned it, and I put it away.
I have shot the 5.7 many many times it is a good gun which a friend of mine owns. I don’t want one personally, but if I get nostalgic I can just go shoot his again. lol I have also shot the browning high power and it is a pretty decent gun, but prefer the 1911 over all of them because I shoot it well. 🙂 It has little recoil (to me) more of a gentle push than the snappy recoil of the 9 mm or .40 cal have out of a plastic gun.
I don’t mean to offend you, but you seem to be reading too much into my posts… I am almost 60 years old and I have been collecting firearms for at least 20 years, reloading for almost that long, and I am an avid researcher on everything to do with fire arms.
As said, I mean any offense to you… I am sure that it is my fault because my posts have been few, and every time I am just agreeing with you and posting my 2 cents to confirm your reply to Raven. I was not clear about that up front, so you seem to have gotten the idea that I was asking questions. The Internet makes it very easy to misinterpret a post unless you are very clear, and most of my posts have been sporadic and lazy about this.
May GOD Bless you,brother. I am sorry about the misunderstanding. Have look back over my posts and hopefully you will see what I am saying here, lol
Have a great day, my friend. 🙂
BTW, have a look at the new brno gun. It looks to be amazing. The new one is only around $1500 as opposed to the original at $7500… lol (https://fkbrnous.com/) I need this gun for my collection. It may actually unseat the 1911 as my daily shooter and carry gun, even though it is a plastic gun.
The svd wasn’t a sniper rifle but really the first production dmr. Yes everyone is aware of 7.62x54r and I reload for mine.
The svd at this point isn’t worth the 5k price tag nor is the 500 dollar sks or Mosin. I built several mosins up so its interesting to see. The fins really had some of the best versions of them.
The 7.62x54R is closer, ballistics wise, to a .308. Have sold, owned and fired well over 100 M-44, M91/30, and M-38 Nagants. Love the simplicity of the rifle, and all of them were quite accurate for the age and surplus ammo. Same with the Russian Draganov.
get a laser sight. a gun smith or a person on a gun range an zero it in for you.
As the author states, there is no single all-purpose gun which works outstandingly in every situation. While I would not particularly choose some of the author’s suggestions, his choices will certainly work in the situations he describes for them.
A well thought-out article about a variety of firearms.
Please LTC take your whine to mommy and cry to her for your piece of cheese. If I point a shotgun at anything within 10 feet of me and pull the trigger whatever I’m pointing at is going to get a taste of lead shot. Just a fact. Been there and done that. Come back in a few years when you get some real world experience little girl and save your crying for mommy.
Perhaps because you are such an world-renown expert shotgun gunny, but for the newbie shooter, not so much.
LCC – people just need to take their shotguns out, and pattern them. Most will give about a 6 inch or usually much smaller pattern at house size distances (around 20 feet.) they wouldn’t be much good for hunting otherwise. 🙂
They all pattern differently depending on the choke, and the load being fired.
Here is a test that Rifleshooter.com did on actual spread of 18″ cylinder or ic chokes.
FROM: RIFLE SHOOTER.COM
We can’t even begin to count the amount of times we’ve read, been told or heard someone say that shotgun patterns spread about 1″ per yard after exiting the barrel. The old adage predicts, if a shooter is 10-yards from his target, the pattern will be 10″ and 15″ at 15-yards and so on. Typically, this discussion is framed around defensive use of the shotgun with a relatively short 18-20″ barrel and some sort of defensive load like the ubiquitous 00 buck.
Having this not match our experience, we decided to head to the range and see what typical spreads we would encounter. For this exercise, we used a series of 5-barrels listed below and Winchester Super-X, non-plated buckshot provided by Brownells. We selected this full power, 1325 fps, 2 3/4″ load because we have found that the tactical and reduced recoil loads on the market pattern tighter then non premium buck and thought this load would provide a better representation of what the typical defensive shotgun owner would encounter.
The 20-yard pattern size was divided by 20 to estimate the average spread per yard of the pattern in inches. Results for this calculation ranged from .35″ to .96″. Barrels at each end of this range represented modifications to stock configurations one would normally encounter in the defensive shotgun market. The results for the two unmodified barrels, the Remington Improved Cylinder and Cylinder, showed an average spread of .58″ and .60″ respectively.
While the barrel we had back bored 2″ short from the muzzle fit the 1″ per yard tale, it should be noted that we intentionally back bored it short as part of our testing protocol from another article. When examining stock barrels, the spread was approximately half of the anecdotal 1″ per yard spread.
So what does all this mean?
Pattern your gun. Next time you wonder how your defensive shotgun patterns, take it out and shoot it with your favorite load at different distances. Normally, we shoot 7, 15 and 20-yards for T and E, but we do shoot buck at shorter and longer ranges on occasion. If you haven’t done so, do it; and next time you hear someone tell the 1″ per yard myth, make sure you set them straight
The results chart is telling:
Barrel 7 yds 15 yds 20 yds Ava spread per/yd
Back Bored 2 5 ¼ 7 .35”
Vang Comp 1¾ 7 7 ¼ .36”
Remington IC 5 10 7/8 11 ½ .58”
Rem. Cyl 3¼ 9 1/8 12 .60”
Back bored 2”
from muzzle 4 ¼ 15 ¾ 19 ¼ .96”
So one can see from the above figures that unless you have a special barrel, the standard Remington 870 with an improved cylinder give the shooter the best spread. Unless you live in a McMansion, you will get a spread of 5 inches at 21 feet, the most distance any of us might bace in our homes unless, as I say, you have some kind of unusual home or extra large home. However, the caveat is that this is for that particular shotgun and may not apply to your shotgun. It behooves the shooter who is relying on a shotgun for home defense to pattern his or her shotgun at the appropriate distances for your home. While Hacksaw is right that he will get a couple of pellets on the target if he just flings his shotgun to his shoulder and lets loose, I still maintain that if you want to put the majority of the shot column on the bad guy, you need to aim the shotgun. You can’t just point it down the hallway and expect to be fully on target and take the bad guy out.
What I found most interesting from the test is that the improved cylinder spread more in this test than the cylinder bore. Intuitive thinking would indicate that the opposite would be true, that the cylinder bore would spread more.
The next time someone tells you that you don’t have to aim a shotgun, you will know that they really don’t know what they are talking about. Of course, some folks still believe the earth is flat and that the space station is a myth.
Pretty much what I was saying – you need to pattern your shotgun with the load that you will be using. Shotguns are kind of funny that way. Even different brands of similar ammo will pattern differently.
It’s all a moot point to me as far as home defense goes. Since my shotgun has around a 26″ barrel it will never be my first choice in home defense. That would be the 1911 until I can get to the AR-15. 🙂
dp: Agreed. That’s why, when testing guns if one is writing an article for a magazine about the accuracy of a particular gun they will use a variety of ammunition. Even with a gun clamped in a rest that is bolted to the bench one will see a variation in the impact zone of various ammunition. Even if the group size is similar, the impact point may be an inch or more apart on the target. And that is at only 25 yards, think of how that impact point will change at 100 or more yards. I am always amazed when I read about the groups that some long range shooters get at 1,000 yards. Not a lucky shot here and there, but actually tight groups. Mind boggling!!! 1,000 yards is almost 3/4 of a mile. I don’t recall the world record for the smallest group at 1,000 but I know when I read about it I didn’t see how it was possible.
LCC and dp,
I Highly agree on patterning any/every shotgun one owns with every load you own or can get but definitely with what you load you prefer to carry.
My personal favorite is #4 Buckshot!
At close range(under 10-15 feet) Large shot such as BBs or #4 Turkey shot will do the job at a Center Mass hit. PLUS the Wad will also cause a Hit.
Through my years of training and using either Mossberg 500s or Remington 870s WE were trained to shoot the shotguns from Shoulder, Underarm, and from the Hip. Using and following the Front site/bead one could hit targets/Bad Guys with very little effort at close to medium ranges…..perhaps some with more training could stretch the range a bit, BUT AGAIN one is still aiming and not just pointing and sending a To Whom It May Concern message.
Like any other firearm YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for whatever your bullets/slugs/Pellets go and the COLATTERAL damage you caused with using your firearm, whatever it might/May be!
A bad guy is in your house and you’re going to pick up one gun and then off you go to fetch your “preferred” weapon to deal with the intruder. Yeah okay…
A 1911 or AR for home defense? Sure, why not stud…. Nothing like an adrenaline fueled mag dump at a bad guy and accidentally killing your kid in his bed because your AR’s zombie killer green tips shoot right through the drywall in your house… 00 Buck is just as bad.
Get real. You’re going to get somebody killed with your idiotic advice.
PS- If you don’t think adrenaline will have you jacked through the roof because you are an expert who shot at cardboard at the local shooting range, then you’re a dangerous fool. CQ fights are pure chaos where all great plans go to hell in a heartbeat and all you have left to fall back on is your training. You need to seriously go back to the drawing board, and also get some of that training I mentioned. BoobTube videos don’t count…
The more I read these prepper articles, the more I realize that a lot of you base your knowledge off of the video games you have played. Most of the authors are just as bad as the expert commenters.
My personal favorites are:
People packing their high dollar “Bug Out Bags” with no place to actually bug out to. Just going to wander the countryside I guess??
The guy planning on “running and gunning” with his mall ninja AR build throughout the crisis. These people seriously have something wrong with them.
The “All I need is my .22” guy. Headshots on deer and tangos at 200 yards. Every time. Wow. The skill…
.44 Magnums are for cop movies folks.
Ak-47s are great on the Walking Dead, not so great for defending your home and family in the middle of the night.
I love those “I’m a Prepper” t-shirts and bumper stickers. Why not just paint a bullseye on your chest?
I swear, going to a suburban shooting range and people watching in 2021 is more fun than going to Disneyland.
Considering not everyone’s house layout is the same… the 556 is actually pretty good for HD roles. using normal ammo or even frangible ammo. It doesn’t have the deep penetration.
seems to me you spent to much time with “SME” who never did anything but write magazine articles
RT
Not sure why someone always wants to take the discussion off topic and start ranting and calling everyone else a D/A…
The article is titled “best guns for preppers not your opinionated rant on why the AR-15 is not an ideal home defense gun” for a reason. Prepper guns are used to put food on the table most of the time, which the AR- 15 will do – maybe not ideal… I would lean more toward the .243 single shot which is cheap enough to buy by the dozen and pass out to small hunting parties, or the 30-30 lever action. Both of which are cheap and easy to reload for.
You do understand that the a15 comes in a variation of calibers.
My 50 beowolf will do just fine on taking down anything on this planet
Keep charging dipsticks. LMFAO.
Hee Hee ha haha… Lowdy Lowdy Lowdy I do declare, “Been There”
Now that’s funny I don’t care who you are… =D 🙂 lol
You’re a woman so your opinion doesn’t matter
The 7.62x54R is closer, ballistics wise, to a .308. Have sold, owned and fired well over 100 M-44, M91/30, and M-38 Nagants. Love the simplicity of the rifle, and all of them were quite accurate for the age and surplus ammo. Same with the Russian Draganov.
I have a Mosin, and they are a decent extra battle rifle for the same reasons that they were always a decent battle rifle. It would not be my 1st choice today as a modern hunting and battle rifle. Good for handing to an untrained serf: Practically indestructible, fairly accurate out to about 800 yds, difficult to waste a lot of ammo due to slow rate of fire. Dirt cheap surplus ammo is easily available in large quantities.
The bad: Chances of getting corrosive primers makes for a lot of soap and water cleaning, surplus ammo is practically worthless as a hunting round, good after market ammo for hunting is hard to find and expensive compared to modern cartridges, old war guns are quite heavy to carry around all day. I do like my old Mosin, but for a cheap hunting, sniping, or battle rifle… I would say that the 30-06, or .308 bolt action is a better choice at today’s prices: dirt cheap used guns, often with an old scope included, accurate cheap hunting ammo can easily be found.
Regarding the development of the .45 to fight the against the various tribes in the Philippines: the Moro’s wore a vest like body shield made of bamboo and rope. The .38 cartridge in use at the time couldn’t effectively penetrate the home made shield. No doubt many Moro’s were “high” going in to battle but being high didn’t stop the .38, the shield did. Bamboo is a very strong and tough material. The .45 was developed to penetrate the shield, not to “buzz kill” the high.
Learned this when training to use the .45 while in the Navy, stationed at Subic Bay, P.I. In the 1980’s.
While the .45 acp was a lethal pistol round, it was not the hand cannon that many think. Last year a police officer scored 17 hits on a bad guy with185 grain hollow pointed .45 acp bullets. The bad guy continued to fire at the officer, luckily not scoring any hits, probably due to the impact of so many rounds on his body. It wasn’t until the officer finally put a round in the bad guy’s brain that he quit fighting and laid down. So much for the urban legend that getting hit anywhere with a .45 acp will put you on the ground.
If one is comparing full metal jacket bullets, then there is no question that the hole made by the .45 is superior to the hold made by something that is .355 of an inch in diameter. However, the FBI has laid down some stringent requirements to ammunition manufacturers before the FBI makes an ammo purchase. Those requirements have been adopted by many police agencies in this country. As a result, ammunition today with its many variations is infinitely better than it was when 98% of law enforcement carried 158 grain .357 diameter lead round nosed bullets with a muzzle velocity of about 850 fps.
It must be remembered that in those days there was no 911 emergency unit with trained EMTs waiting to transport shooting victims to the hospital. Until the end of WWII, antibiotics were not available. A penetrating wound would very likely result in a severe infection from the debris carried deep into the body and there was always the chance of bleeding out if first aid was not administered promptly by knowledgable people. Peritonitis was a frequent sequela of a penetrating wound to the abdomen. Getting wounded by any penetrating object carried far graver risks than it does today.
In addition to improved bullet design, gun manufacturers today are improving the feeding systems of their products so that they can reliably feed bullets with hollow points or other design features that make the bullet more effective.
The days of a semi-automatic pistol only being capable of feeding solid pointed, jacketed bullets is long gone. A pistol with only that capability would be a non-starter in today’s marketplace.
Because of the improvements in bullet design, low flash powder design, feeding and chambering design improvements, the semi-automatic pistol has taken the lead over the revolver. In prior years, the real advantage of the revolver over the pistol was that the revolvers would ignite and discharge any round that was designed to fit in its chamber. You could fire very light bullets and very heavy bullets. Bullets with flat noses, hollow points, semi-jacketed, full metal jackets, round balls and shot cartridges. All would function in a revolver whereas the pistol was limited to full metal jacketed, round nosed bullets. There was one exception and that was the 124 grain truncated cone bullet which Georg Luger designed for use in the 08 Luger. The allies in WWI complained that it was so destructive that it supposedly violated the Geneva Convention against dum-dum bullets and threatened reprisals. Germany dropped it in favor of the pointed 124 grain round nose bullet.
It is interesting that the truncated cone bullet is rarely made today. Almost no manufacturers catalog such a round and even a manufacturer who does, only makes an occasional run of them. As far as I know, the 124 grain truncated cone bullet has never been tested to FBI standards to see how closely it meets their standards.
Today, the semi-automatic pistol utilizing improved ammunition has replaced the revolver as the main duty gun in every major police department in the U.S. and I suspect in most smaller departments as well. The hollow pointed, skivved (a made up word for cuts in the body of the bullet) has lessened the differences in the wound channel between various calibers of ammunition. Despite all that, it still is bullet placement that matters the most. One can see that from the example I used at the beginning of this long discourse on bullet manufacture. While I have not read whether the particular 185 grain, hollow-pointed .45 acp round used by the officer in the example met the FBI standards, I presume it did which was the reason the officer had it loaded in his pistol.
By the way, if somebody questions why you need more than a 10 round magazine, you can cite that case as a good example of why more than 10 rounds just might be necessary. The officer was very lucky that there was only one bad guy involved. He would have been in a world of hurt if three such tough bad guys had been involved.
10mm solves all problems
REALLY???
Then why does the Military and LEOs NOT carry them?
THE FBI Candidates/Trainees was too much for them and solved NOTHING….They got rid of it even the “Attenuated Ten”
What about the “FN FIVE SEVEN”? It is currently in use by at least 40 LEO Organizations around the World!
Remember that former US Army Major that went NUTZO and shot and killed and wounded all those people at that base in Texas….Guess what he used and it was not a 10mm Magnum.
Look at what the Russians did when they went from the AK-47 to the AK-74. From the 7.62×39 Russian to the 5.45×49 Russian.
The original 10mm Magnum was roughly the equivalent of the .41 Remington Magnum.
BTW how many rounds does your Glock or other Model 10mm Attenuated Magnum carry?
The Bren Ten was the First 10mm Magnum was the First one on the Market If I recall correctly and “Sonny Crocket” carried one in the TV show “Miami Vice”
15 plus one in a glock 20. 17 in the extended mag. 10mm is a solution for men
I HIGHLY AGREE THAT THE 10mm Is the PERFECT ROUND That FIRE SPRAY AND PRAY AT LEAST ONE ROUND will EVENTUALLY HIT the BAD GUY/BAD CAL! FORGET about COLLATERAL Damage.
Have you ever done a “Dynamic Entry”? what weapon of choice would you carry, for such job? Handgun? 12 Gauge Shotgun? Sub Gun/ M-4???
IF the 10mm is the answer for EVERYTHING. PLEASE tell me about being Outside the Wire/Downrange, without M-4, or Gunner and all you want to have is a 10mm Glock and no Carbine or rifle.
Also explain why the US Military does not use it, since it is ACCORDING TO YOU, THE ANSWER TO/FOR EVERYTHING….
EXPLAIN WHY since the 10mm MAG is the answer to everything (According to you) WHY the FBI decided that it WAS NOT a viable Caliber for them and they got rid of it…
What works for YOU, MAY NOT be what works for others.
What is the MAX Range and grouping you can consistently hit regularly get a confirmed HIT/git a Confirmed Kill?
Again why hasn’t THE US Military adopted such a weapon.
IF ANYONE depends on MORE BULLETS than the Magazine and a RELOAD of a new magazine….Probabgally needs a Fireteam support, with other weapons BESIDES a 10mm Attenuated Magnum.
Or perhaps CAS/CGS from “THE HAWG” or “SPECTRE” or THE F-15 EAGLE
DESERT EAGLES Carry10 Rounds of .357 Magnum.
The 1911 .45 ACP carries 9 Rounds.
So do you consider the DESERT EAGLE to be a Relic?
You keep ignoring the current 1911s currently being made in .45 ACP, 9mm NATO, etc.
However such 1911s are currently being made and well You go out to buy a Kimber or a Nighhawk, or other currently being made models. They are all Single Stack. A LOT of people MUST BE BUYING THEM!
Para-Ordnance makes several different High Capacity models.
Again IF or SINCE YOU consider the 1911 .45 ACP to be a Relic…. Then the Tens or Hundreds or Tens of thousands buying them as fast as they can be manufactured buying the 1911 in .45 ACP and 9mm NATO…..
MEANWHILE WHERE are the 10mm Attenuated 10s Magnums?
I am sure the 10mm Attenuated 10 Magnums such as Glocks are being sold, BUT there are more 1911s .45 ACP by Many Companies around the World that sell the various 1911 models!’
The .357 Magnum COONAN held how many rounds?
Would you also call that a Relic? Simply because it was limited in how many rounds it’s Magazines would hold? Would you consider yourself Out Gunned when facing a BAD GUY/GAL Armed with one?
The deagles are range toys. The 1911s are novelty for the funds.
Oh yeah done dynamic clearing built a 10mm ar for that.
Raven tactical .. how would you know about solutions for men?
When a “perp” is high on PCP, they don’t know they’re dead yet. The head shot talked about is the end of that story. And as to the truncated bullets; the 200 grain semi-wadcutters I load, coming out at 960 fps is sufficient for most things, but my everyday carry ammo is the Ruger 118 grain ARX rounds, rated at 1,307 fps.
As you said “BULLET PLACEMENT COUNTS” It does not matter what caliber or bullet or even a well placed rock or strike from a Club or other such type weapons, including Baseball or Softball bats.
Once the CNS is disrupted, the nerves will loose all function from below where the CNS was disrupted.
ANY hit to the CNS (Central Nervous System will drop any Bad Guy/Bad Gal.
As Truncated Bullets….they are still being made and before the latest ammo shortage they were readily available at least online.
I have friend that was shot with one. Without going into details My friend managed to survive because EMS/Paramedics were on scene almost immediately.
If not for them being there so quickly, My friend would not have survived.
I had a family member that was robbed on the street and got shot straight in the Heart with a .25 ACP.
He was rather large somewhere around 325-350 Pounds.
He was shot by a young teenage PUNK!! A DAMN LUCKY SHOT!
Proves Bullet placement and penetration are far more important than Caliber!
When it comes to the 1911 .45 ACP and one likes the 1911 .45 ACP and it works for then, Problem solved
When LAPD switched from the .38 Special to the 9mm Barretta Their hit ration dropped and more less became a “SPRAY AND PRAY”
MOST shootings result in 3-4 rounds. Also the LAPD was using improper ammo that was meant for Subguns,…Mainly/Specifically for the H&K MP/MP5SD,
to make headshots at 100Meters/Yards.
LAPD also had a Multitude of stop failures! They also had a lot of simple to Catastrophic slide failures as did the US Military.
Eventually someone realized the problem with the ammo and solved the problem.
I have seen people pay THOUSANDS of $$$ to have a 1911 .45 ACP , that they NEVER FIRED to have work done that they PROBABLY never need it because they read magazine articles that they needed such work done.
A bit of advice information given to me was useful with ANY AND ALL Semiautos was to fire 500-1000 rounds through the weapon to break it in.
AFTER THAT THEN try various other type bullets to see if they will work.
I took his advice/information to heart!
My 1911 ate and does eat everything I have put through it since. I did have a stovepipe or 2 with some handloads I was using.
I do not feel outgunned with my 1911 and the extra magz I carry!
I carry extra Magz with or speed loaders as applicable to what the situation calls for.
As for the damage JHP due….Besides the internal damage, they to leave BIG HOLES at least in the Whitetail Deer or Wild Hogs I have shot with them
Some Modern JHPs will Expand to more or less double their size.
All the Best BE with You and Yours!
You do understand that the 38 revolvers insured that. Cops where out gunned by nearly everything clearly you never been in combat
Raven,
At least you are entertaining. =D
Clearly you know very little, but have opinions on a wide range of subjects.
Cops carried a .38 by choice… they were offered more powerful guns, but 90% of then carry a pistol for 20+ years and never use it. Cops already have 50+ lbs of cr@p to carry around all day. an extra 2 lbs of gun on top of cuffs, radios, ticket books, etc did not interest them.
Soldier fight wars with a rifle. M4, M16, etc, and before that was big wood stocked heavy rifles. The side arm is a get back to your primary weapon tool, or defend against this dude who is on top of me until I can get this jam cleared from my main weapon tool. Again, just like cops, they already have 100 lb of cr@p to carry around…
they are not interested in carrying around a 10 lb desert eagle that may get used a few times to get back to or until they unjam their primary weapon, but carried around for 20 years. A 9mm Plastic pistol fills this role nicely with minimal dead weight to carry around as a last resort firearm.
I carry a Kimber aluminum 1911 made specifically for CCW because it is light and concealable, or a small frame .357 Ruger wheel gun. occasionally, I will opt for the full size 1911 or the .44 mag wheel gun in a shoulder rig. Even with the extra weight carried by my shoulders rather than on my hip the extra 3 lb is very noticeable, and not pleasantly or comfortably so. I only carry that extra weight if I plan to meet my buddy at the shooting range or something that day.
Your comments are always entertaining to read, but maybe you should research your subjects a bit deeper… some days you get awfully close to “mall ninja” territory… lol 🙂
What Fudd group did you rise from. A 38spc vs a glock 17. Who in the right mind would take the wheel gun over it.
You seem stuck in the past hence the relic 1911.
Raven,
I am never sure what you are talking about because you are always all over the place with your claims and, often (not always) BS replies. There was a series of posts a few years ago by someone who everyone started calling ‘the mall ninja’ maybe you should read those posts and the comments, etc. I believe that you will find them at the way back site which archives past sites that have been orphaned.
(1st) You referred to police using the .38 special, so naturally I assume that you are referring to the past. No police force has used wheel guns for decades.
(2nd) You do realize that police DO NOT get to choose their duty weapon. Your department decides what the duty gun will be, and that is what you carry.
In the past departments were offered .357 magnums, .41 magnums, etc and they The Department chose the .38 special for the reasons that I stated, as well as the fact that not all officers could handle magnum loads… this was in the days of the wheel gun.
Nearly all departments switched to semi autos within a few years of each other… nearly all have settled on the full size Glock in either 9 mm or .40 caliber. Some departments may allow you to choose between those two calibers, but you will carry a full size Glock.
As I said, at least your posts are often entertaining. Don’t forget to locate the series of articles called “shrine to the mall ninja” or some such, and I believe that it can only be found in the archives now.
It is quite entertaining, much like some of your posts. 😉
Try not to be so fast to blow off the members of this group, my friend… many of us lived through what is revisionist history now, and have direct experience and true history recollections of the actual events.
What I DO Understand is that you fail to grasp the whole situation as it was at that moment in time and the lessons that were learned from it
No matter the situation you are in, or where it occurs…One uses the tools available at hand and must make the best of that use. NOT what you wish you had or whatever Hand cannon you left at home.
IF all you have is a .22 or a 38 Special (or whatever) is all you have to use……
Then you make the best of it and use it to your maximum abilities and your accuracy,….. That is unless you just want to give up and die or perhaps let others be wounded or killed.
Were the LEOs “Outgunned”? That is one way of looking at that situation….especially the day that the bank was robbed and the cops had to go borrow firearms AR-15s and perhaps other weapons.
The BAD GUYS Had LEVEL III or LEVEL IV Body armor.
One can easily say they the BAD GUYS had Body Armor that was better than the LEOs and claim that the LEOs were not protected as well as they should be.
The LEOs did what they had to do to find “EFFECTIVE” weapons.
Now you have to remember the Public feelings towards LEOs which didn’t see the need for AR-15s as they were too much “Militaristic”.
Feinstein and others were trying to ban such firearms to American Citizens.
Next you cannot disprove that the LAPDs Hit ratio dropped significantly when they switched to the Beretta.
Also they used the wrong bullet/ projectile that was specifically designed by the SEALs and no doubt other Operators, to make Headshots at 100 Meters/Yards with the MP-5SD.
It was also a +P load that was TOO HOT for the Beretta.
The sane was true for the rest of the Military and elsewhere . The round was creating slide cracks and Catastrophic failures.
You fail to mention the BAD GUYS learned how to quickly turn the Beretta from a weapon into a useless
pile of parts.
There were growing pains with the Beretta with the LAPD. Just as there were growing pains with the M-16
first Troops were trained that it never needed cleaning. Later a Comic Book was issued to troops on how to clean the weapon with a rather Busty and Scantily Clad young woman.
NEXT the wrong powder was used in making the ammo.
ALSO McNamara REFUSED to have the Chamber, Bore and Barrel Chrome Lined. Which caused unknown deaths of OUR Troops and the weapon to get a BAD REPUTATION!
Over the years all of the above have been corrected and made the AR Platform one of the if not the most popular firearms in the US if not the World.
I served Honorably and have my DD-214 and VA membership to prove it.
What I did or did not do in the military does not matter any more than if you actually served or not.
Nor what you did or did not do IF you actively served.
ALL that Matters is that We that Served Did our Job and managed to EARN the Title “VETERAN” made it Home ALIVE! Among all the sacrifices of and loss of limbs and other unimaginable Horror and injures and the HELL that happened in-between… We EARNED the DD-214 and most with the Word HONORABLE.
We don’t need militarized police. Yeah the idea that you assume one shot kills with a pistol is hilarious. Thus the death of wheel guns and relics like 1911s.
Nobody cares you spend time at the American legend. Shooting the breeze with other old farts misunderstandings anything relevant.
The military is some of the worst shooters around. People hardly know their rifle and how to use it properly.
“No one in their Right Mind would” carry a Handgun IF THEY KNOW there is going to be trouble.
A person carries a handgun for the possibility of Trouble as they are smaller than more effective Long Guns or Carbines or shotguns. Such type a Weapons KNOWING there is going to be trouble.
A Revolver armed person vz a WONDERNINE you think the person with the revolver will automatically lose and die without a fight?
You have decided the person with the WonderNine is the automatic Victor?
Apparently you believe, and MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR, that you believe, anyone armed with a revolver is outgunned and apparently should not fight back, since as you put it they are outgunned….and they should just give up and die and NOT fight back.
I am sure that there more than one person out there will disagree with you.
Many Firearm Manufacturers are selling Revolvers like Hotcakes and inventing or creating New Versions/Models all the time. Kimber has released new line of revolvers…Chiappa line of revolvers is doing Great with their new design of revolvers, Colt tand their brand of Snakes. S&W with all their various models….
There are revolvers that will hold more than 6 rounds.
Among the failures you are making is overestimating your Wonder Nines and the person carrying such, and Underestimating the skills and capability of the person carrying the revolver!
Both are serious Mistakes often made by “Wannabees” , “Newbies” and people with very little experience.
Both can and will get one and/or there team mates and other killed or maimed!
Also allegedly such happening, led to some Officers and perhaps others being “Fragged”…
I take it that you do not believe Inuit/Eskimos when armed with a .22LR are defenseless against Polar Bears?
I would not care to try such, but there are a lot of Inuit/Eskimos that are still alive and those particular Polar Bears are not.
The fbi shoot out was among the many reasons why relics died. You can keep the fudd routine going but nothing is going to compete with a glock 17 and a few easy reloads. Having that amount of capacity on hand is going to keep people alive.
Then again, the damage done by a .45 even in a non vital area (disregarding the shield entirely) will often do more damage than a .38, making it the logical choice for a protection weapon.
I love my 1911. If it was a .22 I would still love the gun;
dp
IF you ever get a chance to handle an FN Five-Seven and actually shoot it…TAKE IT!!!
Ruger started making a Five-Seven and I cannot vouch for it or have any personal information on handling or shooting one. It is about Half the price of the Ruger. Also the Ruger uses steel magazines.
Back to the FN….I have a friend that has one and let me handle and shoot it!
It is sort of massive but LIGHTWEIGHT….round 5.7×28. It was originally designed by FN for competition to replace the 9mm. The original rounds would penetrate Body Armor.
The magazines are composite and lightweight.
It feels good in one’s hand/s.
It is extremely Accurate even at 100 Meters/Yards.
The recoil….WHAT RECOIL?
Don’t get me wrong I still LOVE the 1911 and I would never trade it!
Seriously if you get a chance to handle and fire the FN-Five-Seven DO NOT HESITATE!!!
You will NOT regret it! I seriously doubt I could afford the FN , MAYBE the Ruger but that depends on after I handle one…. but I DO HAVE Fond and GREAT Memories of handling and shooting it!
FYI…The FN Five-Seven is used by 40 OR MORE Law Enforcement agencies around the World.
The PDS-90 is a carbine using the same caliber.. It is rather unique that the 50 round magazine is mounted on top of the rifle. IF you are familiar with the TV Series “STARGATE SG-1” they use it in a lot of episodes.
It is very compact weapon/carbine and was originally designed for military use such as for Tankers ( people inside a tank) and back office personnel.
It is also in use with some body guards as a Personal/Personnel Defense Weapon.
It’s range is limited but for a PDW and it is hard to beat for such a role.
Lot of islanders to kill in the 80s?
i agree completely,not with the particular firearms (i havent used any other than the m1911) but i agree that a small arsenal is much more practical than a little survival shotgun,for more than one reason, one being,as the author stated, each gun can fill a particular purpose,another reason being, if you’re in a small group of people (lets say ten) and one of your men end up a hostage for a band of looters, the other nine can go in and help the hostage,and one of them can give him a gun to use until your group gets back to your camp and i’m sure there’s a plethora of other reasons but i wont bother listing them,for courtesy sake.
I believe your description of the Mossberg 590 is incorrect. I think you were describing the Mossberg 590M which is the magazine version of the 590. The non-magazine version is a tubular magazine fed shotgun and is extremely reliable. The 590 can be bought with a higher capacity tubular magazine that will allow up to seven or eight, I forget which, shells to be carried plus one in the tube. It is equipped with rifle sights and a variety of factory stocks configurations one of which allows for four additional shells to be carried conveniently. I would change the magazine spring to one manufactured by Wolf Springs in order to increase its reliability.
I have a Mossberg Maverick 88, a Taurus PT 111 and a Marlin 60
Hey Rich,
All well reasoned ideas. If the personal defense pistol is a 9mm auto loader, then why not a Ruger LCR in 9mm for a back up revolver? It uses 6 round “moon” clips and would keep the ammo assortment simpler.
BTW I believe it was John not James Browning
I am surprised not one revolver was on this list. As good as the pistols listed may be there are still a lot more moving parts with the potential for failure. In my opinion, a revolver is more reliable then any semi-automatic pistol. In a SHTF situation I would want something reliable.
I have a .38 special revolver for back up just in case the .45 or .9 mil jam on me after I empty the 12 gauge.
Truth of the matter is that the Glock 17 is only about 1/8″ longer in the barrel and grip than the Glock 19.
Lay them both side by side, slide down, you will see .
No issue in concealment, at all! I’ll take the 1/8″ for the two rounds. Thanks!
Whatever your weapon of choice may be, KNOW HOW TO USE IT. You should be as comfortable shooting your firearm as you are with getting dressed in the morning.
I have a tactical Remington 700 12 gauge 18” barrel. I also bought a long barrel and a slug barrel. These are easy to interchange.
This is a good post, but I have to disagree with the opening statement for shotguns. I don’t know why one would rule out a smaller gauge. One example that stands out to me is the Taurus Circuit Judge. It’s a revolving carbine that will shoot .410’s and 45 long colts. The .410 option allows you to deer hunt with slugs, and shot shells are great for small game. The 45 long colts are what I prefer for deer since I get greater accuracy. It gives you deadly force, without the heavy recoil. (I’m 65 years young)
One thing’s for sure. I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a shotgun, no matter what the gauge!
A firearm IS a TOOL. Just as there are different types of wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers, etc., each TYPE and CALIBER of firearm has specific applications.
I wouldn’t recommend shooting a squirrel with 12GA 00 Buck, unless you want to skin it, gut it and turn it into ground meat all at the same time. However, I’ve dined on many squirrel that I shot with 12GA #5 Shot (low brass). I simply aimed a few inches in front of their heads, but still had to pick some pellets out of the good meat.
The correct firearm, properly applied, will get the job done.
I favor the 10-22 short barrel with suppressor and heavy subsonic bullets, 25 round mags come in handy.
Silent, but deadly… It sounds like squirrel for dinner. 🙂
I’ll bring the bucket-trap batter fried urbanized rock dove – you can bring the beer!
But you’re limited in what you can do with any .22LR. While good for shooting small game, that’s really all they are good for. You should tell that to all the deer We ate back in the 50’s. another is hunting shotguns are limited to 3 rounds. That is only true if hunting water fowl. All the pumps I am familiar with are capable of holding 5 rounds. Not impresses with your knowledge.
Yes, most hunting shotguns come with a wooden plug in the magazine which limits it to two rounds and one in the chamber. Removing the plug allows two more rounds in the magazine so the typical shotgun will hold five rounds. One can buy extended magazines for seven or eight rounds for the Mossberg and the Remington.
Good article. One thing I will say in favor of a .22 for small game is that it isn’t as noisy, so you’re less likely to attract unwelcome attention. I wouldn’t want to depend on it in a tactical situation, though. I have the AR-7 Survival Rifle, which used to be the Air Force Survival Rifle. Everything goes into the stock, making for a small package, which fits easily into a backpack. I’ve had mine a couple of decades and have been happy with it.
I keep a 9mm, 380 and 17hmr all ready to grab and go. The chiappa little badger 17hmr is great for small game for the small group for getting ground hog and gophers any time of year. The 380 makes a great little pocket defender against up close encounters and the Taurus G2C is my choice in 9mm for the 12rds and dependability. So a little arsenal of fun that’s all extremely common in the industry in the caliber’s. Not all shtf firearms have to be for defense some are for food and small caliber’s work great for small to medium game.
I score 12/15. I’m missing the Glock 19,the KSG, and the UTAS. The way Sportsman’s Guide runs crazy deals on the KSG, though, I have a feeling it won’t be long.
The ksg is ok if you want good shotguns go for ones with a mag if you want more than 5 shells. The ksg is just so bulky you might as well carry a truck tailgate on your back. Get a Mossberg 590M series and you can have 10 or 20+1 mags and the guns made by a company whose USA based and holds military contracts. As for the handgun I chose the G2C from taurus over other handguns as it was 179.99 and two 12 rounds mags with modifiable sights. Go for sales on quality firearms and don’t always trust the gun shop try your gun ranges as well for sales and information.
Ksg is to bulky but your going to carry a mossberg with a 20 round magazine…..umm ok
Only hunters strap anything to their backs
At least you would get your guns BACK! Can’t believe that guy stole your guns – better hope he isn’t planning on holding up a liquor store. 😉
The KSG can be a REAL PITA to Reload. Though the Twin Tubes are nice….I feel more comfortable carrying extra Magazines that make reloading much faster.
There are quite a few 12 Gauge that are available in AK and AR platforms. Usually come with 5 or 10 round magazines but there are higher capacity magazines available including drum magazines.
As for a shotgun or other firearm being Heavy…The weight does absorb some of the Recoil, especially when shooting Heavy or Magnum loads.
Applies to rifles and Handguns as well.
It has been said there is no one weapon that will work for everyone in every situation. But I think properly trained in use off any weapon goes a long way. I can take a 17 hmr, a 22 rifle, 556/223, 9mm or almost any weapon and kill a deer, wolf or bear if I needed to. To kill anything you need to know where to hit it with what your using, the point is this if you are in that shtf situation Knowledge of your surroundings, guns, targets(be it human or animal) and training is the most important factors.
The next important factor is how you handle a situation. Some want to jump headfirst and start shooting, others want to take a wait and see, and yet others want to hide. Me I am of the type that does not jump head first into any situation I try to think of all the outcomes and select the most probable outcome that meets the needs of the situation.
As to being in a situation that requires fast action the AR15 556/223 longer range or glock 17 gen 4 for short range is my choice because I use the AR 15 to deer hunt with some(enough to stay in practice lol) and the glock for personal defence(BTW My Ar15 has a scope and a laser so I can use it for defence or hunting short and long range). The main problem is you have to select your setup for your weapon and that requires thought.
But on home ground I will use a crossbow, Remington model 77 308 cal, or winchester 30/30 for hunting and witch one depends on if there are hostiles around and the terran I am hunting. I will carry the glock and one weapon only hunting but then I am a country boy and know the woods.
My advice is learn you weapons by using them, Train yourself in the art of woodsmanship,and always be aware of every detail of what is going on around you. Not paying attention the the slightest sound, a broken branch or marks in the dirt could get you killed.
As to guns they are tools and any craftsman knows you have to learn to use your tools to achieve the best results. There are many tools that will do the same job. So the choice of guns is yours and yours alone for what is great for one may not be good for others.
But second part of advice is to learn not only your weapons but any weapon you can get your hands on the more you know the more likely you are to survive.
What kind of laser?
Super good article and excellent choices of firearms and their descriptions for use.
I am sure that everyone has their own personal preference for SHTF weapons for hunting and defense but here is my 2 cents. Hi Hi.
I actually have considered this scenario for awhile and my choices to carry on my person in a SHTF case are
1. 2 sidearms – .22LR revolver – 44MAG 6″ barrel
2. 1 Rifle – 44mag large loop lever action.
I am sure everyone sees the reasons for the combination and I know for sure there will be many objections to my personal choices but they are my choices for carry in SHTF. They should be enough to get me back to base camp where other defenses are abound. chuckle chuckle.
Enjoyed your article. Any reason why you skipped the M1 Carbine? I carried one in Nam & enjoyed it so much, I bought my wife one, & she loves it too. Not too big or small, Semi Auto & lightweight. I’d rather have the knock-down power of a .30 cal than a .223, very rugged. Shep
Hate to be the lone dissenter, but we’re talking about the “SHTF” situation. Finding the under powered .30 carbine ammo will be harder than finding 30-06. And, for knock down power, I’d put my Saiga .223 shooting hand loaded 62 grain, traveling over 3,200 FPS against the 110 grain .30 carbine traveling about 1,800 FPS. The “carbine” was used for close combat in Korea and ‘Nam. Shots over 100 yards would be iffy. But, if you have lots of ammo and your wife will fire it accurately, more power to you. Personally, I have the Saiga, a Savage 111E in .308 with a 4-16×50 “glass”, compact .45 ACP and a couple of .38 snubbies. Oh, I do have a bolt action .22, tube feed, with a 3-9×40 scope for the small game.
Yeah m1 carbine was outdated in ww2. A slow pathetic round so awful that it had trouble penetrating a jacket.
Good article but I disagree that 30-06 cartridges will be hard to find The .30-06 Springfield is the most popular sporting rifle cartridge in the world. It is versatile, accurate, and plentiful. Every rifle maker offers at least one model chambered for this old war horse. The smaller caliber .30-06 spinoffs may shoot flatter and the larger calibers may hit harder, but only the “Ought Six” can drop everything from wood chucks to Kodiak bears. The fact factory ammo and reloading components are available everywhere—from the largest U.S. city to the smallest African rail stop or Australian’s outback—proves why it is so popular.
I like the idea of people making list like these it is great food for thought and needs to be digested and processed.
IT also shows where people have lack of knowledge on part of the wriiter.
Here is one such OBVIOUS example:
“……………
Chambered for the 7.62mm round, the AK can be used for hunting big game, unlike the standard AR-15. This is an advantage too. Having a rifle that works for both defensive purposes and hunting, all in one package, is ideal for survival.
……………..”
The AK-47 fires the 7.62×39 or 7.62 Russian. The caliber is ROUGHLY Balllistically equivalent to the 30.30 Winchester. as is the SKS Rifle That as not mentioned.
The Ballistics on the 7.62×39 are bit better because a more aerodynamic bullets.
Using the 30.30 Winchester on anything larger than deer might be questionable to some But no doubt it and the 30.06 have taken more big game critters than any other single calibers…..Simply because they have been around so long and people in those days did not have writers in magazines telling them how bad the ballistics on those calibers were.. There is no doubt of hat they can and will do.
People can argue whatever they like and both ..Both could be wrong because they read this magazine or article they saw on the internet or both could be Right
Enough of that the Russians are currently using the AK-74 and are getting Two Ne Select Fire weapons main difference is one of them is suppressed.
The caliber they use is 5.45×39. even smaller than the 5.56×45 NATO. There are people in the US that carry and use it…..
The AKs do not have the range and accuracy of the AR Platforms……There is no doubt the toughness of the AK type rifles….
BUT Depending on the model of the AR platforms and barrel length that may bot be true.
IMNSH Opinion the SKS should have been on the list.. it has a 10 round fixed magazine that can be replaced with 30 round magazines.
22LR kits I hae never had any issues using them in M-16s or AR-15s…. Anyway one can get .22LR kits for the Ruger MINI-14s…The 1911/ SIG P-220.P 92F Glocks.
Another thing one can build their own Glock and depending on what they build all they need is new upper slide Bbl Probaby the spring and new magazines and can change calibers and hae say 3 or 4 handguns in one say 22LR 9mm .40 S&W .45 ACP. Not sure about the 10mm Mag.
Also something to consider are Air Rifles from .177/.22 calibers up to serious hunting calibers.
They are not cheap. They also DO NOT Fall under the National Firearms Act…..They ARE NOT firearms…..They are serious weapons do a search on air rifles
.177 and .22 calibers needs to have a velocity of AT LEAST 1200 FPS MINIMUM to kill small game….1500 FPS on .177 is much better and one can buy THOUSANDS of rounds of different type of pellets for $10.00 or so…….They can also be used on BAD GUYS shots to he face/eyes or above the eyes…..may not kill them but an incapacitate them and or slow them down…… above the eyes will cause a wound and bleed don into their eyes.
u
.177 caliber air rifles seem to be more common and can be bought at Walmart…………. and there is one that comes with a .22 caliber barrel so you get TWO rifles for under $100.00 USD.
Revlver vs semi autos….. The semi autos are pretty much useless without magazines..Gotta have plenty of them as that can and do go bad and get lost…
Revolvers such as the .357 and ..44 Mag shoot to calibers the .357 MAG will fire .38 Specials and the .44 MAG will shoot .44 Specials.
There was and may still be a .357 Mag revolver that would shoot something like 12 or so different calibers.
The revolvers wiith no external hammer can be fired through a purse or pocket and not jam….
5
Now to tactical shotguns…First The Mossberg 590 carries 8 rounds in the tube and 1 in the chamber.There are also extension tubes available for most tube fed shotguns o carry a few more rounds.
There are AK and AR 12 Gauge platforms out there than can hold up 20 round drums….Quick reloads.all of those seem superior to any tube fed magazines….
Food for thought if you are hungry for such information and ideas……I hope at least few will find this of interest and worth considering putting some of the info to use.
I left links out because if you are interested you can do a search and find them and RESEARCH them and decide for yourself…..
After all YOU will be the one carrying whatever weaponry you want to carry or you can afford/get that works for YOU……. THAT is what matters the most. That it works for you.
Eskimos regularly kill polar bears with a .22 LR…THAT is a situation I hope I never have to be in NOR would I recommend or suggest trying. It works for them is the point….. hey don’t need a Big Game Rifle.
Another popular hunting caliber is the .270 Winchester. Flat shooting and ammo is readily available…. am just saying people may already on a rifle in that caliber and love it…… think of it as a necked don 30.06 If hat is hat you have and it works for you and you have a really good supply of ammo stocked away….If it is not broke then don’t fix it……Yes getting those other firearms is important………..but can you afford to keep that rifle and get a 30.06 and or .308 Winchester?
No, Eskimos DO NOT regularly kill polar bears with .22 LR. Perhaps a few polar bears have been shot with .22LRs, but very rarely. Most Eskimo-killed polar bears are taken with bolt-action military surplus rifles such as the Mosin-Nagant and Enfield.
I have too many guns… is that possible?
I have enough guns and ammo to outfit a small army, I have reloading supplies when the powder keg goes dry…
thank God that I live in a red state, and I am on good terms with my local reps and LEOs
lol. come and get them… I dare you… lol
The best gun is the one that fires every time you pull the trigger and hits the intended target. Anything beyond that is just gravy.
The AK can’t hit thr broad side of a barn after 100 yds. The SKS is much better, and cheaper if going for 7,62X39.
as accurate as most 30-30s… almost as reliable, and dirt cheap…. I have 3 of them, and WELL OVER 1000 rnds of ammo.
You can reload the ammo… just 1 more step drive the primer out using water.
I also have a Mosin Negant and several spam cans of ammo. Never discount the old Russian war horse… it is cheap, and so is the ammo. Everyone should have one… It is the Russian 30-06.
Yeah if you struggle hitting a barn at 100 with a ak47 you need to go back to basic marksmanship. The sks isnt much more accurate then the ak but both are build around the idea of hitting a man size target at 250 to 300 meters.
For me up here in the GWN sidearms and assault rifles are a non issue as they are EXTREMELY difficult to get. I believe the only assault rifle you can get up here is some Belgium model but I’m not sure. Never underestimate the power of a lowly .22. Saw a you tube video about it and if memory serves if you use the long rifle bullet in it you can still penetrate half inch pine from something like 300 yards or a 100 yards. Can’t remember which right now. The .22 is not a toy. For a general purpose rifle I’m partial to a repeating 30/06. For something a little more substantial a .308. .308 should be able to take down almost anything. Single shot with the biggest magazine I can put on it. My go to hunting rifle. With a scope on it of course. For close in fighting if they get into the house a pump action 12 guage. Sometimes less is more.
Interesting article. Does anyone have any thoughts on what a good gun for a beginner would be?
Miss Kitty, It depends on what you want the gun for. If you are just wanting to learn to shoot, then a .22 rim fire is probably a good choice for most new shooters. The ammo is cheap, they are generally very accurate, and the recoil and report (sound) are negligible.
You really don’t want to start out using a high powered pistol or rifle. I always start new shooters out on .22 rim fire, and they can work up from that as their skill and confidence increase.
If you are wanting a gun for self defense, then I would suggest going to the local range, and try various rental guns prior to buying a gun in order to see which firearm suits you best. The people at the local range will likely be able to offer some suggestions regarding a defensive gun as well.
I would still start you out on a .22 rim fire to learn basic skills first.
I’m assuming that you are not looking for a hunting rifle.
Thanks dp ! Yes, for defense right now and to learn. Sound advice.
Miss Kitty – I am not sure what your budget is, but
the Taurus PT-111 Millennium G2 gets pretty good reviews. The MSRP is around $250, but can often be found on sale for around $200.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/3/15/review-taurus-pt-111-millennium-g2/
Some folks don’t like the brand, and that is fine. There are probably better guns available for more money. The G1 had some issues that Taurus fixed in the G2. It has been out for a couple of years, so if it was junk it wouldn’t still be getting decent reviews.
The main thing is that you want to try a variety of brands and designs, before you decide which fits, and works best for you. This is where your local gun range, and their rental guns are invaluable.
I personally like 1911’s, but a good quality 1911 will cost you close to $1000…
My current budget is zero, but I hope to maybe save enough to get my permit and a pdw this fall. Hope I still can at that point, but I have no police record and except for AAP and Disqus don’t have a social media footprint, so I should be good.;)
That is funny.look at the $200 gun.. I would just loan you a gun, but that has worked out bad for me in the past….
I have enough to have one to loan a good revolver or whatever….. never going to happen again.
I am going to court over loaning a SKS and a Glock…
if the police report does it I will get the insurance money..
I can’t wry well shoot him, so the court and insurance’ are my only options..
I would still take you out to shoot… no cost to you,
At least you would get your guns BACK! Can’t believe that guy stole your guns – better hope he isn’t planning on holding up a liquor store. 😉
Thanks! My posts keep disappearing into the ether, by the way, but we could have a great shooting party. With Thomas’s squirrel delight and my batter fried bucket trap urbanized feral rock doves we could have quite the picnic. Who’s bringing the potato salad?
What a dirt bag…
Check out yankee marshal on YouTube. He gives away guns to new shooters.
Air rifles are extremely accurate and can be powerful. and economical to shot.
Great ideas and I agree with the group that the best gun is one that “always goes bang” when you really need it and that you can use it to put rounds on target. I agree with your thoughts on the types of guns for different requirements/events, but have different choices. I have a CZ-75 (9MM) and a SIG SAUER P226. For a semi-auto rifle, I prefer the SKS over the AK-47. Same available ammo, but more accurate to have a milled rifle with a longer barrel vs stamped shorter barrel, also easier to carry ammo in stripper clips instead of magazines, and i don’t have the ability to go full auto with the AK anyway. I also have a Remington 10/22 that can be re-built to fit your evolving needs with after market parts (stocks, mags, sights, scopes) and Remington 1100 shotgun (12 gauge) that has always worked. I enjoyed your article and just wanted to offer my thoughts.
Mac… 🙂
I coudn’t have said it better.
Hoping this post will find it’s way – my last FIVE attempts have disappeared! Thanks again dp for your advice, and your kind offer. And thanks to everyone who has posted to this article – your experience and information is much appreciated by inexperienced folk like myself.
Claude has a delay on posting comments so that he can weed out the trolls. All of your comments get posted it just takes a while.:)
Oooohh… well that explains that! Lol! Now I just feel dumb rather than ignored…I didn’t realize that there was that much of a problem. Sorry Claude!
I would second dp’s suggestion to start with a .22. I have been an NRA certified instructor for over 30 years and unless the student already has a handgun that they want to learn on, I always start a new student out with a .22. I also like to start them out with one of my .22s that I know shoots to point of aim at 25 yards with the ammunition I have. With a strange pistol/ammo combination, first one has to define the accuracy of the gear before starting to work on the student acquiring shooting skills. Once the student has good basics down, then is the time to move up in caliber. Again, I prefer to start with a handgun that I know is accurate rather than a strange gun that I might have to wring out first.
I hate it when someone with an inferiority complex decides he is going to show his girl friend/wife what a real gun is and hands her a hand cannon and she never shoots again. In my view that is the same as throwing someone off the deep end of the pool. Sure, they might learn a panic stroke. They might also learn a deep fear of water and shy away from swimming for the rest of their life. That is, if they don’t almost drown and need to be rescued.
Another fallacy is to give a woman a short barreled hide-out gun. Those are guns for professional shooters. I never use less than a 4-inch barrel on any firearm for instruction and prefer a six inch revolver for early large caliber instruction.
People never mention pellet rifles, a good one can kill a deer with a head shot. Mine will pass thru a pine 2×4 at 20 yards. and pellets can be cast and air guns are easy to repair.
Nick – I’ve got a couple of air guns .177 (pump) and .25 (springer) caliber. I doubt that either one are powerful enough to kill a deer at average deer hunting distances. It would unethical to try, unless it were a starvation scenario. They work fine for small game.
Having said that there are large caliber PCP air guns that are suitable for hunting larger game. I don’t know how easily repaired they are in a SHTF where you can’t order new parts, but you can certainly cast pellets and you don’t need powder for them, so that is a long term advantage.
I’ve also got a crossbow, and compound bow for long term or when needing to hunt quietly.
Ok, don’t know how practical it would be, but 1) how difficult is it to make gunpowder, 2) do they still make guns/rifles that you load with powder/wad/shot , 3) can you find bullet molds and what do you melt in them? Resources?
Miss Kitty. It’s not difficult to make gunpowder. It’s not fifficult to find the ingredients. It is difficult to make gunpowder that reliably burns but with practice it can be done. Muzzle loaders are in use and are being manufactured and sold today. You can buy kits to make them if you are so inclined. A bullet mold shouldn’t be too difficult to make. People made them over 500 years ago so I’m thinking that with a little effort molds can be made today. Lead isn’t too difficult to find. In SHTF scenarios there should be many abandoned vehicles. Look for lead balancing weights on the wheels. Open the hood and find lead on the battery terminals. Muzzle loaders are fun to shoot but take some work to keep clean. Rifled versions are accurate and with calibers exceeding .50 you can take down most land animals with one.
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Hacksaw – Yes, black powder is easy to make. Modern smokeless powder not so much, although gun cotton is easy to make, and there may be a recipe around for converting that into something usable. The British cartridges used something called cordite that contained gun cotton, along with other ingredients (nitro glycerin, petrolium jelly). Modern smokeless powders have replaced it. Primers can be made using match heads.
Molds are fairly cheap, so if you think that you might want to cast bullets I would get them now.
If you have “modern” cartridges that were originally black powder, like my 45 LC revolver, then black powder is a pretty good option once the smokeless powder runs out…
Thanks guys!: In a true shtf situation having a “diy” option might be helpful for us to consider. I think of the early settlers who might have gone months or years before supplies arrived at the harbor from the old world. Borrowing a page from their survival book wouldn’t be a bad idea. Worth examining at any rate.
Nice article I just find the 1911 to be a outdated range toy. The ksg is pretty spot on the utg thing felt like cheap plastic and I never seen a video of it running well.
I would add in the ruger precision rifle. Sub moa rifle for less then 1200.
Less not to forget quality optics and magazines
The 1911 is far from a range toy considering that it served us well through multiple wars as the standard military side arm.
I do see the attraction to firearms like the Glock with it’s much larger capacity, dependability, and ease of field stripping, but it is not for me and many people feel the same way.
I have owned several plastic guns, and the balance is terrible – very top heavy. Most are striker fired, and/or double action – so they will never have the short crisp trigger of a 1911.
You can find 1911’s in 9mm with double stack magazines, which negates the capacity issue – although these are not cheap.
That leaves reliability. 1911’s can be just as reliable as any Glock, but they do require to be set up correctly and a longer break in period. A good 1911 is also much more expensive than most striker fired plastic guns due to more expensive material and production costs.
It really comes down to personal choice, and if the plastic guns work for you then that is your choice.
I find it disingenuous to call the combat proven 1911 a range toy… that is the problem that I have with your comment. It puts forth your personal opinion with no facts to back it up. The facts are on the side of the 1911 being a very capable, dependable, and proven combat weapon.
It was good for it’s time but that all it is now.
It didn’t win wars
If you want a challenge of 8 round capacity on a full size pistol be my guest. Most modern guns are beyond the redundant safety’s and limited capacity. Heck my shield holds the same amount. Accuracy is is probably the same. Reliability well the 1911 isnt known for that. I’ll take my g20 edc over my 1911 range toy. Everyday.
Raven tactical – No offense dude, but you have no idea what you are talking about. The 1911 would not have been used for over 100 years as a US military sidearm if it was not reliable. Navy Seals who can choose any sidearm in the world would not choose it if it was unreliable.
You seem to have problems separating your opinions, and feelings from facts and rational thought.
The 1911 is an extremely reliable firearm. The only issues that it has is low capacity compared to modern plastic guns, and it is more mechanically complex than most modern plastic, striker fired pistols.
Because of this it needs to be manufactured properly, and broken in properly. Can you buy a $200 1911 that has problems? Of course. If Glock didn’t have a patent on Glocks then the market would be flooded with shitty $100 Chinese Glock knockoffs that are unreliable too. Would that make an actual Glock a crappy firearm?
The patent is expired on 1911’s, so anyone can produce and sell a 1911. Not everyone can produce a good 1911, especially if they are trying to be the cheapest.
I don’t mean any offense – I really don’t, but I am going to post a quotation from Thomas Sowell:
“The problem isn’t that Johnny can’t read. The problem isn’t even that Johnny can’t think. The problem is that Johnny doesn’t know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.”
~Thomas Sowell
As I said before, you seem to have a hard time separating facts from hearsay, your opinions, and your feelings. I don’t blame you, or people like you – I blame the school system that failed you.
Have a great day.
It would be cute if you could avoid personal attacks. I guess your fudd gun lifestyle and 1911 fanboy must be showing. I suppose you have a colt tramp stamp as well. I’ll say it slowly again. They Make good range guns and even race guns. But As a carry gun they ate extremely out dated by not only glock but everyone else. Just because it was great 100 years ago doesn’t mean it’s still relevant. Navy seals use sig and again the side arm is pretty much never used.
Raven- So you interpret he truth as being a personal attack? Get over yourself. The 1911, as well as whatever your favorite weapon happens to be, will, at the end of the day, put holes in whatever object the bullet hits. That is the objective and all the hot air in the world isn’t going to change that fact. And no, claiming that you are full of hot air isn’t a personal attack, it’s as Joe Friday always said “ just the facts ma’am”.
Raven tactical – I don’t know where you get your information from, probably the public school system. Maybe you should forget all of that socialist propaganda from publicly funded 12 step brainwash camp, and go buy a “real US history” book.
Not sure what you mean by it didn’t win wars. No single weapon ever won a war including the A-bombs during WWII.
The 1911 was the standard US military sidearm during the Spanish American war… we won that war. It was also the standard US military sidearm during WWII… we won that war. It was the standard US military sidearm during the Vietnam war… We would have won that war if politicians didn’t try to run it from DC…
Up until a few years ago many elite troops in the US military, folks who get to choose their own weapons like Navy Seals, carried the 1911 by choice.
The 1911 was in active military service for over 100 years. …Far from being a “range toy”… you are delusional… you are entitled to your own opinion, but you aren’t entitled to make up your own facts.
The best gun in any situation is the one you are comfortable with, can use accurately, and is dependable. If you dislike the recoil and noise of a .45, .44 mag, or .454 do not buy one to only use for self defense. Go with a sure thing you are not afraid of.
Good article. My setup was a Remington 700 BDL 30-6 big game, 870 mag for woods, Ruger model 77-22 for the small stuff. But my brother had this 44 mag carbine which was sweet, and with a Ruger 44 mag 9″ barrel that seamed to be a great combo. A competition shooting (60,000 rounds a year) gunsmith friend of mine at his gun range had a sand bank wall at 225 yards and showed me how he could hit clay targets placed in the sand with his Ruger 44 Mag. That is a long shot for such a heavy bullet, but he after missing the first time 6” or so to the right, he was able to take down 3 in a row. So when he asked me if I wanted to try it, of course I had too. Aim about 5′ high to start he said and a lil to the left for the slight breeze. Missed,missed again, then I hit, and hit again. He had almost every gun you could think of even a 357 maxima, which he had to custom make the shell casings because they were so hard to get at that time about 25 years ago. We tested the 44 mag compared to a 41 mag on 2 sets of 3 big phone books taped together. The 44 mag was impressive and for all purposes destroyed the books, but the 41 Mag made confetti out of the books. It was awesome.
I started to learn to shoot at 6 years old on a old Remington 22 bolt action single shot. Dad said if you can’t learn to hit what your shooting at with 1 bullet, you shouldn’t be carrying a gun. One of the great things my father taught me. I hear these idiots out in the woods firing several fast shots, and I know they cant hit the broad side of a barn. And I really worry about all the others in the woods, because you know they are not aware of their surroundings. Nuff said. Keep up the good work.
Truth. Probably the biggest problem with the .44 mag for long range is that they tend to use pistol bullets with a fatter and flatter nose.
That said… You find the same problem with any tube fed gun ammo because a hard pointed nose right against the next in line’s primer could set off the whole magazine because of recoil forces.
The new soft nose spire points help, but they deform at high velocity and they affect accuracy also. still better range and terminal velocity. The solution is probably easy, but cost prohibitive.
225 yds is impressive out of what is pretty much 100 yd. ammo.
dp: Just so you can be informed, every weekend, somewhere in the U.S. there is a match called metallic silhouette. It is fired at 25 meters. 50 meters, 75 meters and 200 meters. The rams which are the 200 meter target weigh 75 pounds and in order to score the shooter must knock the ram off the rail. It is a drag to hit the dang ram and see it turn and teeter and stay on the rail. Those ranges are shot with a variety of handguns. While long barrel single shot handguns are primarily used, there is a revolver match and the favorite revolver is the .44 magnum. Many shooters are able to shoot a possible at 200 meters, that is 5 rams, 5 shots. You only get one shot per target, so if the ram turns and flips you off, there is nothing you can do about it except go on to the next ram. You aren’t safe at 200 meters from an experienced shootist who shoots long range.
LCC
I gave you a thumbs up brother.
I am well aware of silhouette shooters.
I actually have two Thompson Center barrels that I have sent off to be-custom re-chambered that would be very good indeed for this sport.
That isn’t what I I had them made for. I made them for them to my best single shot hunting guns.
I am about to box them up and have 3 inch muzzle brakes permanent installed, so that I can use them on my Thompson Contender rifle stock legally.
They are a 44 magnum barrel that I had made into a .444 Marlin barrel, and a .41 Magnum that I had made into a .414 Super Mag. Both are 14″ bull barrels… I am sending them off tomorrow to have 3 inch barrel extension/recoil extensions permanently installed per BATF guidelines.
They will then be over 16 inches.
I am not losing sleep over rioters or Antifa members or BLM communist rioters having a a 200 yard sharpshooter in their ranks… HaHaHa LOL. what were you thinking???
May GOD BLESS you My Brother. You made me belly laugh with that last post. 🙂
LCC.
LOL, Ha Ha.
Just to let you know, and just to cite my other posts regarding firearms…
I am a collector, and I have been for over 20 years. I have had many “Glock Clone” plastic pistils – including the first. A H&K VP70Z That was the 1st plastic gun. It sucked. The trigger sucked, the way that the metal slide was the heaviest part of the gun sucked, The way that the slide recoil BS (balance) changed with every shot sucked as the counter balancing magazine got lighter and lighter with every shot.
Now I own 1911’s and revolvers, single shots and rifles or shot guns.
I probably own 40 guns. I own so many guns that I lose them all the time, and I have to go find them to clean them on schedule…
It sucks to live in a red state during this COV19 FF, lock down, and communist insurrection, but not as much as living in a blue state… at least I have Constitutional carry, So I can legally carry every day with no government oversight or registration.
If I have to shoot one of these assholes then I have over 1 million$$$ in CCHL insurance, and the cops and the government will be on my side. We love our cops around here… we work with them when they need a bit of help, and we just watch their 6 and we let them know that they are appreciated otherwise. NLR (my town) has the best police force in the state… We have like a 2 year waiting list for new recruits.
Can’t trust the Rem 870. Have had 3 of the 870 Express models one initial purchase and 2 replacements. In process of patterning used factory 7.5s, 6, 4, 4 buck, 00 buck and slugs.Shot one of each at separate targets. The 7.5, 6 and 4 worked fine. The 4 buck caused the pump to get tight and the 00 buck locked it up completely. Never got to the slugs. Sent it back to factory and it was returned as repaired. Tried it again, but started with the 00 buck and it locked up completely. Sent it back again, received a new one. Same thing. Sent that one back and got another new one. It ran 00 buck and lasted 3 rounds befor again locking up. As far as I am concerned I can’t nor ever will trust any gun that does this. Switched to a mossberg pump and a Benelli pump. Both run fine and the Benelli patterns a tad tighter than the Mossberg. Those I feel I can trust.
My uncle is thinking of purchasing a gun to defend him during life and death situations. I never knew that rifles are made for target flexibility in mind. Maybe we should find a store that’ll let him try a variety of guns for self-defense.
I have a Remington 870 12ga, with a tactical barrel, bird barrel, and a 20” slug barrel. Also a Knox stock to reduce recoil. I figure carrying a couple of barrels is a better option than a couple of extra rifles.
I would like to have my email address included on your website. I would appreciate it.
As for my choice for SHTF situations, I like the 9mm HC pistol and compatible PCC with suppressor. You can sidearm the pistol, pack the PCC, and sling carry the longer range AR-10 in .308. If I’m on foot.
If I am defending my home; tactical .45ACP, Tactical 12ga SA HC Shotgun, AR-15, and LR 6.5 Creedmoor (even though the rounds are way more expensive).
Ultimately, If I could have a Fully Automatic, suppressed 9mm carbine.